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| Shared translation engine - Usage - Three simple steps to localize - Technical Support (You need to be registered at the forum to write) - .NET, Delphi, ... - Sisulizer Localization Tool Support | |||||||||||||||||
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Christine Member
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Dear all, as we now come up with several DLLs that are shared over multiple projects, I have a few questions concerning the use of the translation engine that I could not answer with the help: 1.) Documents: Is the link to an existing SLP project after import a "life" link, that is, is the translation engine automatically updated for project A if project B is updated? (Project B is shown on the Documents page.) 2.) If so, is the link a relative path, i. e. can I access it from several computers? 3.) If I understood correctly, I could use an embedded translation engine on a server and access this with several computers / SLP projects? How are conflicts handled if several persons are updating the translation engine? 4.) How can I change the path of an existing translation engine? Via the Reconnect button? 5.) Does the translation engine take Alternative Original into account or does it save only Original <=> Translated Language? If it uses Alternative Original, what happens if I change this parameter in the project? (usually I switch this parameter: "Original" if I work on the project, "Original (English)" if I send the file to translators. 6.) Unfortunately, I am forced to use a very old version of Multilizer for one project with shared DLLs. Do you have by any chance any suggestion how to improve my workflow? In the moment, I export/import TMX, but this is a bit nasty for synchronizing two projects. Thanks in advance for your help, Christine
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Christine Member
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sorry, another question: 7.) I am also using Across (SQL server based) TMS. Do you know whether it would be possible to use it as translation engine for Sisulizer directly?
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator 
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Hi Christine, Sorry, but we do not have an interface to Across at this time. Markus
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator
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Hi, to 1) the documents describe where the strings in the TM came from. If you remove a document from the document list its strings are removed from the TM. to 2) to my knowledge does a change to the document not change the TM. to 3) No, the the DBISAM based translation engine is made for single use only ("embedded" is just name of the default TM which is using DBISAM). You have to choose one of the Server TM types. These can be accessed by multiple workstations. to 4) Sorry, the path of single use TMs is fixed after you created it. But you can create a backup with TM tools, create a new TM and restore the strings from the backup. Please be aware that only TMs on server databases can be used for multi-user access. So moving a DBSIAM TM to a server path and access it from many workstation will not work. to 5) I don't know if I got that right. Sisulizer saves language pairs for every of your languages in your project at the time you write to the TM. If you later use translate using TM it looks if a matching language pair is available. Changing the languages in your project does not change the data in the TM. to 6) Why don't you retire ML and use Sisulizer for it. You can import the strings from the resource DLLs created with ML. Hope this helps Markus
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Christine Member
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Dear Markus, thank your for the prompt response. Sorry, it is yet not clear to me: to 3.) What do you mean with "single use"? Is it not possible to use the same TM for different projects? If so, do you have a suggestion how to handle shared DLLs? to 4.) "Please be aware that only TMs on server databases can be used for multi-user access. " sorry, could you clarify this or do you have a manual how to do it? Do we need to install an SQL server on our server? Across also uses a server - I guess we could install the database to the same server? (Sorry, but I have not much knowledge on servers. Our admin could help, but he does not know Sisulizer or Across at all.) to 5.) How does the Autotranslation work then? For example, if German strings are missing - does the TM check all other existing language translation pairs for a matching German string? to 6.) We tried this and it went not very well. Our program crashed with the translated DLLs. We did not analyze this further. Maybe it did not work because we do not use satellite assemblies in this project? However, I just agreed with our DEV that they will try it again soon. Best regards, Christine
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator
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Hi Martina, > to 3.) What do you mean with "single use"? Is it not possible to use the same TM for different projects? If so, do you have a suggestion how to handle shared DLLs? We have two types of TM: a) Based on local databases like DBISAM b) Based on remote databases like SQL Server DBISAM comes embedded with Sisulizer but is single user only. That means only one user can access it at the very same time. If you want to share translations between workstations you should use a remote database. > to 4.) "Please be aware that only TMs on server databases can be used for multi-user access. " sorry, could you clarify this or do you have a manual how to do it? Do we need to install an SQL server on our server? Yes, the server is not included in the Sisulizer installation. All you need is an user account that has the rights to create new tables and use them. >>Across also uses a server - I guess we could install the database to the same server? (Sorry, but I have not much knowledge on servers. Our admin could help, but he does not know Sisulizer or Across at all.) I also do not know the Across server. We tried to co-operate with them but that failed to some reason. > to 5.) How does the Autotranslation work then? For example, if German strings are missing - does the TM check all other existing language translation pairs for a matching German string? No, the TM only checks for the exact language pair, e.g. DE-EN. >> to 6.) We tried this and it went not very well. Our program crashed with the translated DLLs. We did not analyze this further. Maybe it did not work because we do not use satellite assemblies in this project? However, I just agreed with our DEV that they will try it again soon. Hmmm... I'm not sure what went wrong here. If you re-try please try to keep all possible information you get in the process. If you have a DLL created by ML and the one created by Sisulizer to replace the ML version it could be interesting to see both to find the difference. Markus
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Christine Member
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Thanks, it's clearer now, but not 100 % clear: >> to 4.) "Please be aware that only TMs on server databases can be used for multi-user access. " sorry, could you clarify this or do you have a manual how to do it? Do we need to install an SQL server on our server? >Yes, the server is not included in the Sisulizer installation. All you need is an user account that has the rights to create new tables and use them. Let me get this straight: - I have an SQL Express server on a network server - I create a database on the server - I link the database to a project in Sisulizer - I can access the TMS from any computer in the network correct? >> to 5.) How does the Autotranslation work then? For example, if German strings are missing - does the TM check all other existing language translation pairs for a matching German string? > No, the TM only checks for the exact language pair, e.g. DE-EN. But how decides Sisulizer which pair should be checked? There is DE-EN, but there is also DE-FR, DE-IT, etc. And what about the original strings? Do they also form pairs with all other languages? Best regards, Christine
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator
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Hi, >>- I have an SQL Express server on a network server - I create a database on the server - I link the database to a project in Sisulizer - I can access the TMS from any computer in the network correct?<< Yes, just login to a existing database server database and Sisulizer creates the tables needed. So the account you use to connect needs the rights to create tables. >>But how decides Sisulizer which pair should be checked? There is DE-EN, but there is also DE-FR, DE-IT, etc. And what about the original strings? Do they also form pairs with all other languages?<< You have one original column. That is e.g. German = DE. And you have target languages, e.g. English = EN. If you want to translate the EN column from TM you select the English column and use Column - Translate using translation Engine. If it is English it knows the pair is XX-EN. Sisulizer looks for the original column to find the language as well. If it is German it makes the pair DE-EN. Now it searches the TM for entries for this language pair. If you use Project - Translate using translation Engine it loops trough all target languages and does above. If you have German as original and English and French as target it will first do DE-EN and then DE-FR. Please be aware that if you save to the TM you will get all pairs related to the original language only. So you have original German plus target French and Italian you will get DE-FR and DE-IT but neither FR-IT nor FR-DE. Best Markus
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator
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Some addition to the last post: While you do not get "FR-DE" you still can use that pair with the switch "Bidirectional Search": If checked the translation is done on both directions. This means if the translation memory contains English to Japanese translation (e.g. "mountain" -> "山") the translation memory can also translate Japanese string "山" to English string "mountain". Making translation bidirectional slows down the translation process sligthly but enables translations to both directions. While there is no language pair "FR-DE" in the TM database it can be "simulated". Some other issue is "FR-IT". This can not be "simulated". Markus
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Christine Member
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Ok, this means that the relation is made only between the original language (Original in our case) and the target languages, ORI-EN, ORI-DE, etc. Again my question: what happens now if I switch to use Alternative Original Language = English in the project? - does Sisulizer add the new language pairs as EN-EN, EN-DE, etc. to the database table? - does Sisulizer kind of "overwrites" the TMS so that the original pairs ORI-EN, ORI-DE, etc. are gone? I am asking because I switch to Alternative Original Language when sending the project to external translators. Best regards, Christine
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Janusz Grzybek Super Moderator 
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Again my question: what happens now if I switch to use Alternative Original Language = English in the project? No, Sisulizer’s TM always use original language during saving to TM and translating with TM. You can to export your translations with alternative original to TMX (that was implemented on your request), and next import this file to TM, but during translation with TM usage, Sisulizer will be still compare translations with originals, not with alternative originals. Best regards, Janusz
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator
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Hi Christine, See the screenshot. There you can see the language pairs stored in the selected TM: >>- does Sisulizer kind of "overwrites" the TMS so that the original pairs ORI-EN, ORI-DE, etc. are gone? No, if you want translations to be removed from the TM you have to remove the document that provided them to the TM (Tools - Translation Engines - Documents). Markus Attachment: 0148.jpg (Downloaded 68 times)
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Christine Member
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Ok, I see. This should be ok for our shared DLLs. However, for auto-translation of new strings, it is not ideal from our point of view, because our English translation could have a completely different content or meaning than the Original string. As the translations of all target languages are based on the English language, the auto-translation based on the original language could be completely wrong. But we can live with that - you always need to check an auto-translation anyway. I will try out the SQL-Server as soon as our Admin has time for me :-) and let you know how it went. Thanks again, Christine
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Christine Member
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Dear all, I connected our Sisulizer projects now to an SQL Server database, on the same server where my Across database is. Thanks again for your help. I have one more question: - In the database, I can see the string rows in the tables. Is it possible to edit or delete strings directly in the database if required? Or would this cause problems? Best regards, Christine
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Janusz Grzybek Super Moderator
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Hello Christine, Yes, you can edit or remove translation and original records of TM based on MySQL database engine in external database tools. However it should be done very carefully. Sisulizer saves originals to "slsource" table, translations to "sltarget" table. You can find original and translation values in "ValueTm" fields. Advice: If you remove record from "sltarget" table, I recommend also remove appropriated record from "slsource" table. This operation is not essential, but seem to me that it can to keep good database structure. Best regards, Janusz
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Markus.Kreisel Administrator
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Janusz ist right. Go ahead but be careful. It is btw. not recommended to build an own TM Editor while the database structure has to change. In the moment string lengths are limited by index sizes. The newer TM format has to overcome this limitation and thus there will be some changes needed in the structure. Also the recommendation of Janusz to update all tables is important. If the new format comes alive there might be some converter. And this converter might requiere this data. Markus
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Christine Member
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Dear all, thanks. One more question: I deleted the Embedded TE in the Translation Engine dialog box (with the red X button), but it reappears each time I reload a project. Best regards, Christine
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Janusz Grzybek Super Moderator
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Hello Christine, After deleting Translation Memory, you need to save project. If after deletion Translation Memory, it is still visible, go to "Project" menu > "Edit source" > Go to "Engines" tab, and check enabled translation engines. Best regards, Janusz Attachment: screen.png (Downloaded 45 times)
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Christine Member
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Dear Janusz, this is a bit weird, because the Save button is disabled after removing the TMS from the Translation Engines page. However, the TMS for the sources (as in your screen shot) is ok. The connection between the General Settings on the Translation Engines page and the project-related settings and the source-releated settings is not very clear to me. Best regards, Christine
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Janusz Grzybek Super Moderator
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Hello Christine,this is a bit weird, because the Save button is disabled after removing the TMS from the Translation Engines page Try use "Save as"” from project menu instead "Save". One more question: I deleted the Embedded TE in the Translation Engine dialog box (with the red X button), but it reappears each time I reload a project. Hmm… I can’t reproduce your issue, because when I removed Embedded TM, it was automatically removed, and after Sisulizer restart I didn’t see this TM anymore, and for this reason I don’t know if my solution works. The connection between the General Settings on the Translation Engines page and the project-related settings and the source-releated settings is not very clear to me. Here link to online help about Engines tab of source properties: http://www.sisulizer.com/online-help/SourceDialogEnginesSheet.htm Best regards, Janusz
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| .NET, Delphi, ... - Sisulizer Localization Tool Support > Technical Support (You need to be registered at the forum to write) > Usage - Three simple steps to localize > Shared translation engine | |
Sisulizer software localization tool - Three simple steps to localize
