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Logical font support - Bugs and Quirks in Sisulizer - Technical Support (You need to be registered at the forum to write) - .NET, Delphi, ... - Sisulizer Localization Tool Support
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 Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2019 04:05 pm
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User1234
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Hello,

We have a project using MFC where all dialog fonts are set to MS Shell Dlg. Since this is a logical font, MS Shell Dlg gets replaced by Tahoma at runtime.

When using Sisulizer, the edit window uses a different font substitution. This means that any auto resizing or manual editing done in Sisulizer doesn't necessarily work well when our program runs. This is very annoying.

Is there a parameter somewhere that controls font substitution in Susulizer?

Thanks

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 Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2019 04:59 pm
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Markus.Kreisel
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Its controlled by
Project - Edit Source - <your source> - Fonts
You might have to set a fixed font setting for your application. By default (Change fonts: never) the windows system chooses the font.
Markus



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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 03:48 pm
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Thank you for the fast response.

Using font substitution works but I had to manually edit the SLP file because MS Shell Dlg is not listed when I try to change the "Original script and default font". MS Shell Dlg 2 is listed though.
Do you have any idea why MS Shell Dlg is not available?

I rechecked the FontSubstitutes entries in my system's registry and I found that MS Shell Dlg maps to Microsoft Sans Serif and MS Shell Dlg 2 maps to Tahoma.

In Visual Studio 2017, I created a simple project where I duplicated the same dialog 4 times and changed the dialog font for each.

Dialog 1 MS Shell Dlg
Dialog 2 MS Shell Dlg 2
Dialog 3 Microsoft Sans Serif
Dialog 4 Tahoma

So according to the FontSubstitutes entries I would expect Dialogs (1, 3) and (2, 4) to use the same font and look the same.

Indeed in Sisulizer, this is what happens. But in the Visual Studio GUI editor this is not the case. Dialog 1 doesn't look like dialog 3, it looks like dialogs 2 and 4. If the application is run, I get the same results.
I downloaded a bunch of resouce editors and tried them. Here's which font is used for Dialog 1 depending on the application:

Visual Studio Resource Editor Tahoma
Application runtime Tahoma
Sisulizer Microsoft Sans Serif
Resource Hacker Tahoma
Resource Tuner Microsoft Sans Serif
ResEdit Microsoft Sans Serif
SN Resource Editor Microsoft Sans Serif

So it looks like 4 out of 5 resource editors don't agree with Visual Studio on how to substitute MS Shell Dlg. Unfortunately Sisulizer is one of them.

The workaround you gave me does work, but I have to change setting for the 30+ rc files in my project. Also, in the localized rc files the font is set to Tahoma, I'd would prefer if it stayed unchanged. If Sisulizer worked the same way as Visual Studio this would be the best. If not, having a global project settings for rc files would be nice.

Could this be part of a future version?

Regards

Karl

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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 04:36 pm
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Markus.Kreisel
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Well, changing the behaviour might break other users projects.

Anyway this forum is observed by R&D. Perhaps they have some idea...

In general changing the default font for dialogs is not a good idea. Every Windows version might have its own idea what font to use. It can be even different for windows language editions. That`s why you see different interpretations in different editors.

Markus



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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 05:43 pm
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I understand that Windows version / language edition may have some influence on font substitution. But in my test all resource editors ran on the same machine so I would expect them to display the resources the same way as the application does.

If Sisulizer's behavior change is implemented as an option that's turned off by default, there won't be any side effects for other users and everybody's happy (especially me!).

Have a nice weekend

Karl

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 Posted: Fri Mar 1st, 2019 06:02 pm
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Markus.Kreisel
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But the editors are coded on different machines. Developers will orient the substitution on their actual machine. They all try to simulate what they think Windows will do - but this seems to be different. An European developer might have different results than an Asian one. So the substitutions lists will differ. And the windows lists are - to my knowledge - not part of the API documentation.

The only way to have it the same is to let the system decide and use plain standard fonts. I understand that it sounds odd and there might be reasons to use different fonts (we all remember the first Visual Basic applications where changing fonts was the first developers did since it was so easy in contrast to C/C++).

But for localization changing fonts will always make some troubles. We all don't know what Windows 11 will bring...

Markus



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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 08:31 pm
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Well it turns out that using font substitution does not work as I initially thought. The font only gets changed in the translated resources but stay the same in the editor. I was sure I had seen the font changed in the editor but it doesn't. I might need new glasses.

It looks like I'm going to have to edit all my rc files to change MS Shell Dlg into Tahoma. I'm not too happy about that.

It is unfortunate that Microsoft which develops both Windows and Visual Studio does not seem to be aware of it's own font substitution rules. Since Microsoft is the bigger player, it still think it would nice if there was a way to change Sisulizer's resource editor to make it behave more Visual Studio's.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 5th, 2019 08:45 pm
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Markus.Kreisel
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How about using some text editor like Notepad++ and use it search and replace on files.

Changing Sisulizer will mean that other projects will break.

Markus



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 Posted: Wed Mar 6th, 2019 01:16 pm
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I found an easier way: I changed the font substitution in the registry. Now all resources editor I've previously tested show dialogs the same way, including Sisulizer.

It seems we won't agree on changing Sisulizer. I get your point that you don't want to break projects for other users. I still believe that if you make a feature optional and turned off by default, the potential for breaking things is pretty low.

I have a question related to the Resource Editor. When I use the "Make same Width/Height/Size", the editor resizes things using the widest/tallest/biggest control. So the size always increases. In Visual Studio, the editor uses the last control selected as the reference. So the controls can get wider or narrower. Is there a way to do the same thing in Sisulizer?

Thanks

Karl

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 Posted: Wed Mar 6th, 2019 02:57 pm
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Markus.Kreisel
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Sounds like VS doesn`t use the font list in the registry like the others do?
Do you know if VS has its own settings in the registry?

Can you please share the registry entry path. Perhaps it is useful for others as well.

Regarding the question I asked the team members who translate more than I do in the editor.

Markus



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 Posted: Wed Mar 6th, 2019 03:35 pm
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The path is
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes
You need to logoff/login in order for it to take effect.

Unfortunately, I have no idea where VS gets its settings for font substitution.

I found an issue with Sisulizer's resource editor. I have several dialogs where a group box is contained within another one. In VS I can see both. I tried a couple of other resource editors and everything shows up fine but in Sisulizer the inner group box is hidden. I have to send the outer group box to the back in order to see them both. Is this a known issue?

Regards

Karl

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.NET, Delphi, ... - Sisulizer Localization Tool Support > Technical Support (You need to be registered at the forum to write) > Bugs and Quirks in Sisulizer > Logical font support



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